Who is more desperate here, Ian, or the SPGB?
Devrim
SPGB Forum featuring Ian Bone
Oh hi fnbrill since you're on libcom i was wondering if you'd gotten the private message I'd sent showing you were wrong when you claimed that the Philly IWW was holding the rest of the union hostage. I posted about it on the 'IWW and referendums' thread, feel free to respond and retract your accusations anytime.
In fact , a return "bout" is planned to take place at Bristol University at a later date , to be announced .
It is also to be noted , that the meeting is taking the form of a forum rather than the usual custom of an adversarial formal debate and this should indicate a desire for some constructive dialogue and creative thought .
Also , unlike the practices of certain other political organisations meetings , contributions from the audience will be actively encouraged .
And yes i think we all desperate ( very , very deperate) to have any public arena where we can engage in political , (and dare i say it , revolutionary ) discussion , face to face and in the flesh , rather than through the cyber- world and internet exchanges and comments which has been increasingly the way of things these days .
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And yes i think we all desperate ( very , very deperate) to have any public arena where we can engage in political , (and dare i say it , revolutionary ) discussion , face to face and in the flesh , rather than through the cyber- world and internet exchanges and comments which has been increasingly the way of things these days .
Yes, it is important. We do these things too, and give people from the floor ample time to speak. The point was about Ian. I think if you want to debate with anarchists you could find some better options (why not invite the AF, for example).
I don't think you will get much from Ian but self promotion. For someone who used to be able to do it on TV, it must be a bit of a comedown to do it at an SPGB meeting.
Devrim
OliverTwister wrote:
Oh hi fnbrill since you're on libcom i was wondering if you'd gotten the private message I'd sent showing you were wrong when you claimed that the Philly IWW was holding the rest of the union hostage. I posted about it on the 'IWW and referendums' thread, feel free to respond and retract your accusations anytime.
OT - yes I did, just getting my research in order, much harder than a quick two word reply. Needs to be factual you agree? No flying off the cuff. But let's let this thread be for itself....
First of all, my aside
Quote:
"unlike the practices of certain other political organisations meetings , contributions from the audience will be actively encouraged"
was not directed at any anarchists or anarchist groups i have had contact with , but is aimed at certain parties of the Left who i have had personal experience with who overly stage-manage meetings and restrict discussion to a one-off question and rarely a follow-up . But , yup , mea culpa , i do have a tendency to add unnecessary barbs to comments .
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Dev - " I think if you want to debate with anarchists you could find some better options (why not invite the AF, for example)."
By all means . I will post your suggestion on for the SPGB to take up . In fact a, meeting with a structured organisation that has its own declaration of principles is preferable to a discussion with the possiblities of idiosyncrasy of an individual - so i do understand Wheeler's remark " Ian Bone! Wow, were all the other anarchist strawmen busy?"
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In fact a, meeting with a structured organisation that has its own declaration of principles is preferable to a discussion with the possiblities of idiosyncrasy of an individual
Do you know Ian? I really think he is probably the most 'idiosyncratic' anarchist you could possibly have found.
Devrim
Got to be honest, I'm not sure of the purpose of the 'forum' myself, but Dev, for your information, I'm pretty certain that the SPGB did debate Ian Bone (Class War) at least couple of times in the 80s/90s in London.
So the SPGB knows Ian Bone, and he knows about the SPGB.
Cheers for your revolutionary concern, though. 
ftony wrote:
Personalist wrote:
Ian Bone with Jonathan Ross was fucking classic... ;)it was so embarassing when he did that little dance at the beginning though. thought i was gonna puke!
Only the embarrassing get embarrassed.
I think you'll find that neiter Ian nor I were embarrassed at all. Did you see him on the late night politics show?
Devrim wrote:
And yes i think we all desperate ( very , very deperate) to have any public arena where we can engage in political , (and dare i say it , revolutionary ) discussion , face to face and in the flesh , rather than through the cyber- world and internet exchanges and comments which has been increasingly the way of things these days .I don't think you will get much from Ian but self promotion. For someone who used to be able to do it on TV, it must be a bit of a comedown to do it at an SPGB meeting.
What a rubbish hierarchical opinion Deviot.
You are an holier than thou nobody and never has been. FFS.
Ian's politics and achievements are better than yours and your entire organisation(s).
The SPGB have produced their own flyer to promote this event . Their text is as follows
DISCUSSION FORUM
Socialism Or Anarchism
Which way the revolution - what are our differences?
It's often been said there is a lot of common-ground to be explored
between socialism and anarchism regarding the means and ends
of revolutionary change. On Saturday 20th September at 6 pm at 52
Clapham High St, we will try and do just that at a forum organised
with Ian Bone of Class War and Howard Moss speaking for the Socialist
Party of Great Britain in an effort to clarify those practical and
theoretical differences between anarchist and socialist traditions.
For example, there is disagreement on what form of resistance to
capitalism is the most effective. Is it through direct action in response
to the impact on workers, or resistance to the ideas and arguments
which sustain it? Such views have always divided anarchists and
socialists. On the other hand some have argued that both forms of
resistance not only compliment each other but are also essential in the
pursuit of class struggle. However, despite these divisions there is
agreement not only on the need for a fundamental change in the
ownership of the means of living, but also on the need for a classless,
stateless, moneyless, borderless society, where a hierarchy serves no
function and leaders have no purpose.
Ian Bone is probably Britain's best-known anarchist and once was
described as, 'the most dangerous man in Britain'. Founder of Class
War and active over four decades in community politics and
investigative journalism, he has been behind the "Vote Nobody" initiative
and has published a well-received autobiography 'Bash the Rich'.
But such notoriety also begs the question whether or not the use of
violence will have a positive or negative effect on the course of
revolutionary change? Especially, when the ballot box is available to
confirm majority support for a relatively peaceful transformation in how
society produces and distributes wealth.
It is anticipated not only these disagreements but many others will
provide for a lively discussion. There will be free refreshments available
throughout the evening, along with free literature. However, we would
advise you to get there early for seating is limited and we are expecting
a full house! "
Hmmmm???....a full house.???...always the optimists are the SPGB ;-p
The SPGB have organised a forum with
Ian Bone (Class War) and Howard Moss (Socialist Party)
Title: Which way the revolution - what are our differences?
Chair: Bill Martin (Socialist Party)
Followed by open discussion
Venue: SPGB Head Office 52 Clapham High St, London
Saturday 20th September at 6 pm
Refreshments available, also free literature All welcome