Acht, Gregory Campbell and anti-Irish racism?
Oct 9 2007
Wadda yez all think of this? From indymediaireland - keep track of the comments here
I beg forgiveness from those who believe "Continual self-contempt for our gaelic, peasant and religious origins is deeply self-wounding" (thats from the end of, I think, the sixth comment down) but I actually thought that Gregory had managed to be quite funny for a change.
Racist or not?
PROTEST AGAINST ANTI-IRISH RACISM - SUPPORT THE IRISH LANGUAGE!
Tuesday 9th October 12pm Stormont
On Tuesday 9th October, UUP MLA David McNarry is proposing a draconian motion to ban the use of Irish in the NI Assembly. Irish language organisation ACHT have organised a protest to coincide with the hearing of the motion at Stormont next Tuesday at 12 pm.
ACHT Spokersperson Ciarán Mac Giolla Bhéin said, “this motion not only contravenes Article 73 of the Assembly Regulations but also the Good Friday Agreement and the European Charter for Regional and Minority languages, both of which which uphold the right to speak and learn Irish. The use of indigenous languages is an internationally recognised human right that can't be held to ransom by anti-Irish racism or party political posturing. The Irish language community firmly believes that instances such as this highlight the necessity for a rights-based Irish language Act in the six counties.”
Mr Mac Giolla Bhéin also stated that Tuesday's motion can't be taken in isolation and follows what he descirbed as, “a month of vitrolic and hugely insulting racist anti-Irish attacks by senior elected representatives of both the UUP and DUP. This was epitomised by the deeply offensive racist mockery of DUP MLA Gregory Campbell last month where he disgracefully imitated an Irish phrase by saying 'Cori my yogi Bear, a can coca colya'.
"Such irresponsible and racist behaviour is totally unacceptable and wouldn’t be tolerated by any other linguistic or ethnic minority. The Irish langauge community is no different and deserve a complete retraction and apology from Mr Campbell.
“ACHT is calling on support of the Irish language community and all others who oppose racism and believe in human rights. We look forward to seeing you at Stormont.”
CRÍOCH/END
Oct 9 2007
#2
And what about those of us who like to imagine we are the returned descendants of the cruthin, eh Terry? 
Nah, I'm sure Gregory's motivation is sectarian but thats still not racism. Calling it racism is to my mind pretty fuckin daft. Now if he had attacked all things "Irish", as defined by the religious, peasant, gaelic origins comment I'd have agreed that that was sectarian and anti-Irish.
Balls - I'd have bust a gut laughing and agreed with him 
Only kidding.
I have posted nearly anonymously in the comments, I'm afraid summa these people know me, live near me and I'm too scared to put forward an anarchist or anarcho-syndicalist perspective on this in case ACHT picket my front door due to my "anti-Irish racism". That and the fact that I don't have the slightest interest in the pursuit of an Act of Parliament being brought in to 'defend' or promote the Irish language...
And really I don't have a problem with Irish speakers, apart from when they are being deliberately cliquey and anti-social down the pub. But then I'd have that problem with a couple of comrades if they started doing that in esperanto. 'Ulster-Scots' I don't mind down the pub, I actually understand and speak it better when I'm drunk (what with it only really being an accent and all with a few funny words thrown in).
Oct 9 2007
#3
fuck the irish language, it's dead, history has passed judgement.
Oct 10 2007
#4
Who is history to pass judgement on anything?
Apart from that I really don't give a fuck. More importantly though I reckon that todays protest by ACHT was ridiculous and reactionary.
Oct 10 2007
#5
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
Who is history to pass judgement on anything?Apart from that I really don't give a fuck. More importantly though I reckon that todays protest by ACHT was ridiculous and reactionary.
well you would say that....
Irish is dead in the water, it's of fuck all use, the only people who learn it are chucks, indulgent hobbyists and the odd guilty prod. You might as well campaign for equal funding for Klingon.
Oct 10 2007
#6
So you reckon I'm a chuck, an indulgent hobbyist or a guilty prod?
Waddaya mean "You might as well..."? I wouldn't campaign for an Act for the Irish language, or 'equal' funding for Irish or Klingon. The only things I am interested in 'campaigning' for are the things that impact on a class terrain on the basis of increasing the self activity, confidence and class conciousness of my fellow workers. So again, like I said, todays protest, like the formation of a group set up to secure an Act of Parliament to enshire the Irish language (or Ulster Scots for that matter) is ridiculous and reactionary.
But then we're probably both to a greater or lesser extent just like Gregory Campbell and guilty of blatant anti-Irish racism My point on history though is really based on the fact that history does not have the agency in itself to pass judgement on anything.
Oct 10 2007
#7
well i think you were a guilty prod for a while.... 
the irish language lobby should be treated with the same contempt the ulster scots one is.
Oct 10 2007
#8
Um, from guilty prod to prod experiencing 'guilt'. Is that an improvement or does it just mean I'm getting worse?
Oct 11 2007
#9
'Cori my yogi Bear, a can coca colya'
Sounds like Ulster-Scots to me.
Oct 11 2007
#10
Mara wrote:
'Cori my yogi Bear, a can coca colya'Sounds like Ulster-Scots to me.
ex members of ASF and MWR might or might not have had a similar joke about the Irish language.
"Tiocfaidh Ar Cho CHo, Coca Cola Donation Sinn Fein".
Oct 11 2007
#11
Agus agus agus agus agus
I thought it was quite funny. A bit sectarian aye, but not racist. And yeah, irish is a fuckin joke. Everyone who learnt in my school was a chucky twat. I learned german because some people in the world actually speak german.
'Cori my yogi Bear, a can coca colya'
What's that supposed to mean anyway?
Oct 12 2007
#12
These boards are dosed with Irish racism, some members of Organise! do have a keen interest in Irish! Youd expect someone to post a thread on more important stuggles such as the classroom assistants rather than the usual shite on these boards.
Oct 12 2007
#13
Bobby wrote:
These boards are dosed with Irish racism, some members of Organise! do have a keen interest in Irish! Youd expect someone to post a thread on more important stuggles such as the classroom assistants rather than the usual shite on these boards.
so why don't you then?
And by some members you mean your good self.
Oct 12 2007
#14
Bobby wrote:
These boards are dosed with Irish racism, some members of Organise! do have a keen interest in Irish! Youd expect someone to post a thread on more important stuggles such as the classroom assistants rather than the usual shite on these boards.
"Irish racism" against who? Polish immigrants, the Chinese? I take it you meant "anti-Irish" racism.
A keen interest in the Irish language is not the same as believing that a group campaigning for an Act of Parliament in relation to Irish is worthwhile. Last I heard from you about ACHT was pretty dismissive.
Nor is it anti-Irish racism to be cynical about or not have an interest in the Irish language or even to be opposed to politically motivated promotion of it. It seems more racist to expect everyone who is 'Irish' to actually share a 'keen interest' in the Irish language and to accuse other 'Irish' people who do not share that interest of racism. The conflation of the Irish language with the Irish (as in the people who live on this island) is forced, narrow and not just a wee bit reactionary. As if there is anything such as an Irish race, or that such a race could be defined in terms of a contstructed Irish language.
Personally, I have posted a more serious thread on the suspension of pilots by Aer Lingus over attempts to introduce worse terms and conditions at their new Belfast hub - a thread that has prompted only one response.
I'd like to remind you, though you shouldn't need reminding, that Organise! is an organisation based on class not any supposed 'Irishness'. And I really couldn't give a toss what language the Assembly conduct their business in - not that it'll really be conducted in anything other than English with the odd opening paragraph (repeated in English before the substance of any point is made in English) and closing comment in Irish in the debating chamber. Its actually more ridiculous to suppose that the bulk of Sinn Fein MLA's have more than a rudimentary understanding of the language or that any proposals made in Irish could even be voted for or against given that many Sinn feiners and the bulk of the rest of them wouldn't know what they were voting on.
But don't let any of this stop you from creating a row about nothing or accusing other comrades in your organisation of racism.
Oct 12 2007
#15
Revol, it shows really how out of touch you are. As far as the act i dont care, but youll find that more than one member of Organise! and not myself is quite supportive of the act and campaigning for it which shows the lack of any theoritical unity nevermind mind tactical unity in Organise! these days, im sorry to admit on these boards!
Oct 12 2007
#16
is he active in campaigning for it using Organise!'s name? Is such a thing something we need theoritical and tactical unity on?
Out of tocuh my arse, i think anyone who thinks this act is anything more than politically motivated sectarian mobilising wank needs to remove their head from their arses or atleast their republican dominated surroundings.
Oct 13 2007
#17
I think youll find that the unionists as usual are the one pushing the motion. I was talkin to an irish language activist last night and as far as he is concerned this is good for the language as the unionists reaction is creating good publicity.
Oct 13 2007
#18
sorry aren't irish language activists pushing for some stupid bill of rights aswell?
anyway what the fuck is an anarchist doing worrying about what lanaguage our rulers are allowed to plot in?
Oct 13 2007
#19
I wasnt me you posted the thread in the first place and obviously there are more important struggles at the moment. personally although some members of Organise! are in favour of the act and are doing so it a personal capacity and not under Organise! which is fine but doesnt it raise other questions as to the theoritically unity in Orgnanise! and direction as well as lack of internal education which for me is fundamental for obvious reasons?
Oct 13 2007
#20
i never posted the thread.
Quote:
lack of internal education which for me is fundamental for obvious reasons?
will i wasn't going to mention that for fear you'd take it as a dig. 
Oct 13 2007
#21
Bobby, I went to a school where we had to say our prayers in Irish as I'm sure you did at your school. The language is a joke, as a child I never understood the importance of it, it had fuck all to do with my everyday life cos I was more concerned about playing football and computer games. If someone wants to learn it then whatever I don't give a shit, but making it into something political is a bit daft.
Oct 14 2007
#22
I happened to go through all the shit myself too and i really dont have any disaggreements with ye at all, except of course the point i made in my previous post.
Oct 15 2007
#23
Student strike over enforced Irish schooling
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1015/andaingean.html
Oct 15 2007
#24
ronan wrote:
Student strike over enforced Irish schooling
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1015/andaingean.html
fucking sweet.
my ma loathed irish after they tried to literally beat it into her at school. I dunno why nationalists aren't content to accept that the english gave us a language and we showed them what could be done with it.
Oct 15 2007
#25
Forgive my ignorance and wandering into the irish forum without any good reason, but...
THINK YOURSELVES FUCKING LUCKY
so much of politics in wales is dominated by the language issue. Unless you are a 1st language speaker your 'not welsh', people refuse to translate stuff into english, refuse to communicate in english, or admit that english is the first language of 75% of people in wales.
That said cod-silly-nonsense-'welsh' imitation is very very common and seen as funny, Ray Gravell and Max Boyce were doing it the other day on telly. no protests at Stradey or Lamb & Flag as of yet.....
Oct 15 2007
#26
my abiding memory of Irish in school is breaking into a sweat when asked 'what would douglas hyde say (presumably about the state of the language) if he was alive today?' by my leaving cert oral examiner combining both conditional tense and imagination. i only realised later that if i'd managed to translate 'help I'm trapped in a fecking great box!' I would have been sorted.
Oct 15 2007
#27
Fair play to them, that takes balls.
Oct 15 2007
#28
I reckon the background to this one is that Dingle is a gaeltacht (irish speaking) area and so that Irish school is the only school in the area. If their was an English school their sheltered culture might suffer and all the Yanks that go over visiting will become disillusioned with the lack of thatched cottages and dolphins.
I went to an Irish primary school and really like the language. The compulsory nature of it though coupled with the emphasis on the inanities of grammar turn most people off.
The "dead language" shit is actually well off the mark. It's certainly not the dominant one and will never replace English but
Quote:
Of the Republic of Ireland's 4,057,646 residents who are aged three and over, 1,656,790 people (40.9%) regard themselves as competent in Irish.
Quote:
Outside the educational system, 1,203,583 (29.7% of the population aged three years and over) regard themselves as competent Irish speakers.[2](Table 32A) Of these 85,076 (7.1%) speak Irish on a daily basis, 97,089 (8.1%) weekly, 581,574 (48.3%) less often, 412,846 (34.3%) never, and 26,998 (2.2%) didn't state how often.[2]
Oct 15 2007
#29
Quote:
Of the Republic of Ireland's 4,057,646 residents who are aged three and over, 1,656,790 people (40.9%) regard themselves as competent in Irish.
You're forgetting that other vital statistic, 99% of the irish are pathological liars.
Seriously would wonder what 'competent' is classed as? A drummed in Hail Mary?
Oct 15 2007
#30
Quote:
Outside the educational system, 1,203,583 (29.7% of the population aged three years and over) regard themselves as competent Irish speakers.[2](Table 32A) Of these 85,076 (7.1%) speak Irish on a daily basis, 97,089 (8.1%) weekly, 581,574 (48.3%) less often, 412,846 (34.3%) never, and 26,998 (2.2%) didn't state how often.[2]
34.3% never speak it, but regard themselves as competent. 
Devrim
Well it is in that ballpark anyways. Wouldn't calling it sectarian be more traditional? What Irish phrase is he imitating?
Yeah most of those comments are silly, what Arabic culture in Galway? There are a couple of kebab shops (think those are Turks though) and a prominent anti-war protester who lives in Galway and originally hails from Iraq. What else? hardly historic. Maybe they mean the Galwegians enslaved by Arabs back in the day. Or perhaps they are getting 'Arab' and 'Muslim' confused and mean the cricket team.
Be nice to get news and opinion from a different Northern viewpoint on indymedia ireland <dig> ...maybe an anarchist one, maybe an anarchist anti-nationalist one, <dig>, fuck even an anarcho-syndicalist one would be an improvement on the steady drip of republican opinion <dig> <dig> <dig>
I like the way back prior to geting colonised by Saxons and Scots we were all peasants...what about Irish people who want to imagine an idealised past of their forefathers being noble warrior aristocrat types? Oh yeah sorry I forgot Gaelic Ireland was communist.