It's a beautiful part of the world the people have an honesty and integrity practically non-existent in the West. The revolution in Mexico is far from over. They hold the truth in their hearts
Six murdered by police bullets in Chiapas
What a load of Orientalist bullshit.
NarcoNews article (days after the Libcom one 
), including photo montage video:
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/kristin-bricker/2008/10/chiapas-massacre-update
Looks like I got confused on the Lagos de Montebello occupation...I can't really make head or tail of that logistically, it's huge and covered with cops and its eviction received no press coverage...
Footstep wrote:
It's a beautiful part of the world the people have an honesty and integrity practically non-existent in the West. The revolution in Mexico is far from over. They hold the truth in their hearts
bollocks.
Alan wrote:
NarcoNews article (days after the Libcom one
nice one!
they were murdered by police
which is why i dont understand why you come back talking 'Orientalist bullshit'
My fierce streak of humanitarian concern does have orientalism to it. I'm half Zoroastrian
why someone would attack me near the day of the dead for having an empathy with a deeply loving race of people when the cold blood under blind orders of the police is what to take issue with. strikes me as contemptable.
Nobody is attacking you for "having empathy" (something which you don't have a monopoly on, by the way). What people are taking issue with is this patronising, noble savage shit. The people living in these communities are no more inherently "truthful" or "loving" than anybody else and this two dimensional romanticising of them is as unhelpful as it is racist.
Isn't Mexico the wrong way for it to be orientalism?
"Near the day of the dead" that would be a religious festival. No gods or masters.
How can you be "half-Zoroastrian" is the other half of you attached to any religion?
"deeply loving race of people" Not only patronising but stupid and racist. Are the police of a different race? Does becoming a piolice officer change your race in any way? Should you be using an outdated label shown to have no value to be describing people? I'd like for you to stay and argue your corner (and realise your mistake).
i would say the people of ocosingo are extremely different to most western cultures where the socio-economic individualistic nature of the ever so sutble politics they are soooo apathetic they don't even realise is affecting their lives and deeply contorting them from their true sense of selves is fairly valid . People who join the military and take orders without engaging their own minds are a race apart.
what is the outdated label i used to describe people? - if it was deeply loving. shame on you.
the other half of me is irish hence i'm a heed the ball. with buddhist sympathies
madashell wrote:
Nobody is attacking you for "having empathy" (something which you don't have a monopoly on, by the way). What people are taking issue with is this patronising, noble savage shit. The people living in these communities are no more inherently "truthful" or "loving" than anybody else and this two dimensional romanticising of them is as unhelpful as it is racist.
They're a lot more inherently truthful and three dimensional than anywhere capitalism has its grip. They have a deep respect for nature, for each other and for their sense of community. They don't put people down to big themselves up. They are deeply loving. I was there and was loved by them! So I know.
If you are able to open your world view - you'll realise not all people are created equal. You have the joy of being born into a deeply corrupt and flawed system. The native people of Mexico did not go anywhere, colonise, or force their truths on anyone else - in itself is a sign of a peaceable race. A foreign concept within the walls of Fortress Europe. They welcomed the Spanish in the misguided belief he was a returning sun king then many threw themselves to death from the cliffs to avoid submission. The Mayans believe we are living in the age of the 5th sun. The Quickening. The Age of Mirrors. and the Triumph of Materialism. Most people there don't have any idea or experience of just how true this is. (technology, celebrity, rampant consumerism - a price on everything. value for nothing). They lead honest lives with deep and simple values. More so than we are enabled. They predict this to end in December 2012. These people are not fictitious. They do exist. Their truth is transparent and very real. Look to their history. There is much to learn.
It's plain and simple truth. I have travelled far. And one thing Westerners have a bad reputation for is for JUDGING EVERYTHING BY THEIR OWN STANDARDS
jef costello wrote:
Isn't Mexico the wrong way for it to be orientalism?
So...you think indigenous Latin America can be considered "western"? It's a poor term really, I mean, am I being orientalist if I stereotype Germans? The reference makes more sense in the arbitrary context I apply.
I've been LOADS of times (what? he asked!!)...in fact I spent half a day in the village in question hunting for a public phone (there's NO reception round Lagos de Montebello). It is one of the most desperately poor parts of Mexico, right on the border with Guatemala. There's incredibly basic tourist infrastructure (even though quite a few foreigners do travel through there) and basically one paved road in the vicinity. The good thing about its remoteness is that it's really easy to hitch rides round there.
Supposedly quite a lot of the inhabitants round there were refugees from the Guatemalan insurgency...a couple of guesthouses actually opened their doors to them when the war was at its height. Tourism is basically the only economy down there...coffee is mainly sold to tourists and beans, maize, chili etc are grown in rural areas and then sold in town markets to other indigenous folk but that's a declining income.
Communities round there tend to be polarised between Zapatista/PRD or PRI, Catholic/evangelical Protestant and along tribal lines too. Unfortunately a lot of struggle around there is a confusing mix of progressiveness and reactionism. Some folks only understand their problems in terms of the threat to their "culture", no matter how reactionary or bigoted it makes them. There's no "truth in their hearts" or noble savages (although there is savagery from time to time), just unhappy, desperately poor and disenfranchised people.
EDIT: what are people's thoughts on the occupation movement of tourist sites? They appear to be organised by "village leaders" (ie entrepeneurial small businessmen), and their main demand is basically a slice of the pie that goes straight to the Mexican state (ie it leaves Chiapas).
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/ultimas/2008/10/04/denuncian-seis-muertes-por-desalojo-en-ejido-de-chiapas
I hadn't heard anything of the ruins occupation...? But as my memory serves, while not claimed by the Zapatistas - it has seen combat during the revolt and many of its remote, isolated communities are greatly polarised between priistas and Zapatistas, with a military presence also to be thrown into the mix.