Well. This is really great publicity.
Car Bombs, suprise suprise an invention by anarchists
Bobby wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_BombDid anyone watch the programme of C4 last night on .car bombs?
It was my Pick of the Week so i would have been disappointed if noone had! 
There's a pamphlet about car bombs that mentions this - I'm pretty sure it's the A History of the Car Bomb by Mike Davis, available from Treason in Canberra from http://ledpup.dyns.net/treason/Pamphlets.html#CarBombs
Um, Mike Davis has written a pretty good book called Buda's Wagon on the history of the car bomb citing the Wall Street horse and cart bomb as the first instance of its use (by anarchists). Despite Weeler's warning about not claiming this as part of our historical heritage it probably is, and I'm not sure it should be denied.
Unless of course yer some animal rightist worried about the poor horses. Seriously though, denying bits of history because they are a bit more problematic than others is the sort of stuff all to many politicos do - picking the bits that suit their current agenda and denying, or burying, the bits that don't. Another early use of a car bomb is attributed to anarchists during the Spanish Revolution. History is, right or wrong, very much about the context certain things happen in. If we bury or deny it then we can't really be open about any sort of judgment call on whether it was appropriate, if not why not and why we might be opposed to repeating the same sort of tactic these days. Several years back Organise! had a public meeting on Anarchism and propaganda by deed. We didn't deny this as a part of Anarchism's historical lineage but we certainly didn't present it as a 'viable' or defensible strategy then or now. But then, like other politico's, Platformists are extremely adapt at cherry picking history to suit themselves.
The book, particularly given its subject matter, is pretty well balanced, well presented and actually critical. I'd recommend people read it before they decide to 'claim' or disclaim part of Anarchism's historical lineage.
For the most part I agree except for your platform jibe comrade,
I would love to see any pictures and talk of this meeting. One of the key failures is not keeping this all together and publicised on your website for example........ you need to reclaim your historical lineage 
jack white wrote:
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
But then, like other politico's, Platformists are extremely adapt at cherry picking history to suit themselves.oh fuck off
p.s. its adept
They were involved with dodgy nationalists too. I should be right up the Platformist's street.
Wikki wrote:
The first car bomb may have been the one used for the assassination attempt on Ottoman Sultan Abdul Hamid II in 1905 in İstanbul by Armenian separatists, in the command of Belgian anarchist Edward Jorris.
Devrim
Devrim wrote:
jack white wrote:
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
But then, like other politico's, Platformists are extremely adapt at cherry picking history to suit themselves.oh fuck off
p.s. its adeptThey were involved with dodgy nationalists too. I should be right up the Platformist's street.
Wikki wrote:
The first car bomb may have been the one used for the assassination attempt on Ottoman Sultan Abdul Hamid II in 1905 in İstanbul by Armenian separatists, in the command of Belgian anarchist Edward Jorris.Devrim
Isnt that from the time period when you believed national liberation could be a progressive force? Before lenin went into decline, or the sun lined up with the planets and decadence started?
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
Seriously though, denying bits of history because they are a bit more problematic than others is the sort of stuff all to many politicos do - picking the bits that suit their current agenda and denying, or burying, the bits that don't.
This is bollox, there are loads of things that people have done under the name of anarchism (and syndicalism) that we dont have to take as part of our history and can just come out and say; thats bollox. The cart-bomb is one of them, it killed ordinary workers and did nothing for sacco and vanzetti.
Weeler wrote:
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
carbombs are well clever, there should be more of them, especially where i live!.Ah fuck?
Yeah, because thats obviously what I said 
Weeler wrote:
Boulcolonialboy wrote:
Seriously though, denying bits of history because they are a bit more problematic than others is the sort of stuff all to many politicos do - picking the bits that suit their current agenda and denying, or burying, the bits that don't.This is bollox, there are loads of things that people have done under the name of anarchism (and syndicalism) that we dont have to take as part of our history and can just come out and say; thats bollox. The cart-bomb is one of them, it killed ordinary workers and did nothing for sacco and vanzetti.
The point is you can't just say its bollox though without dealing with it as part of 'our' history. No more than we can deny that FAI/CNT members took government posts in the Spanish Government during the Civil War/Revolution if we are to make any valid criticism of them for doing so. Nor can we deny the period of Propaganda by Deed is part of our history, we need to acknowledge these things if we are to develop a criticism of them. Do you think its wrong that Davis has written a book about the history of the car bomb and pointed out that the cart-bomb was 'invented' and used by an anarchist? Do you think that we should deny that anarchists were actually involved in armed robberies in the US in the period Sacco and Vanzetti were arrested? The cart-bomb did nothing for them, it is also extremely doubtful that it actually did anything to further harm their case given the nature of the trial.
Just saying its bollox is basically bollox.
This thread has reminded me though that some bollocks still has my copy of Budas Wagon. I want it back.
How the fuck am I cherrypicking history? I reject carbombs as part of my tendency within anarchism, I dont deny it happened as part of anarchist history, I deny its usefulness. I certainly wouldnt be starting threads to praise our role in creating a weapon which has almost entirely been used to terrorise the working class.
Maybe if you rant aginst wsm in every thread we will give you your members back.
Er, I think revol is talking about a bit more than just this thread. But thanks for the above, its a bit more nuanced than your original "I wouldn't run around claiming this as part of our historical lineage". So basically you agree with me despite accusing me of ranting and claiming I want to promote the use of car bombs.
Ah well, perhaps you would have been better responding more like Bobby did? Sorry my slipping a dig in at Platformists has made you pretty irrational while accusing me of ranting.
And wtf is this give us our members back? I think its up to them what organisation they join. When have we ever asked for our members back?
And while you "certainly wouldnt be starting threads to praise our role in creating a weapon which has almost entirely been used to terrorise the working class" -
a) could you name me one weapon that this is not true of?
b) this thread was started by a wsm member
c) no-one has actually been praising the car-bomb on this thread
"Unless of course yer some animal rightist worried about the poor horses."
Seriously, though, does this mean that ordinary people, (i.e. those of us who are not animal rights activists), shouldn't give much of a shit about, "the poor horses" . Do you think it O.K. to carry that mentality into future actions ? If so, what about children, and the mentaly infirm, who could also be used for an action, without consent, and without knowing a thing about what'll happen to them ?
John Somebody wrote:
"Unless of course yer some animal rightist worried about the poor horses."Seriously, though, does this mean that ordinary people, (i.e. those of us who are not animal rights activists), shouldn't give much of a shit about, "the poor horses" . Do you think it O.K. to carry that mentality into future actions ? If so, what about children, and the mentaly infirm, who could also be used for an action, without consent, and without knowing a thing about what'll happen to them
yeah cos there's an equivalence there
John Somebody wrote:
"Unless of course yer some animal rightist worried about the poor horses."Seriously, though, does this mean that ordinary people, (i.e. those of us who are not animal rights activists), shouldn't give much of a shit about, "the poor horses" . Do you think it O.K. to carry that mentality into future actions ? If so, what about children, and the mentaly infirm, who could also be used for an action, without consent, and without knowing a thing about what'll happen to them ?
So when someone kills 40 people and 1 horse we should condemn there action because they hurt a horse? Is that the only problem you have with it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Bomb
Did anyone watch the programme of C4 last night on .car bombs?